Some of you choose not to read White, too bad, youre about to. Tech Street1:P.O. James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. (And he does, for other things.) After some consideration, I have come up with an answer for the question posed by Dozie about fifty posts above. Heres some advice on that matter: Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect.. Essau, what are you talking about? Without it, theres no ad hominem. I thought that this was an apologetics website, but I see little apologetics going on. Blog Or the Massachusetts Bay Colony? because it is Gods revelation and His authority and he does not share or mediate that authority ever. Couldnt call him out on sloppy usage. It has long been the subject of debate what the right response is to anti-catholic excesses. 18:17) He who hears you hears me; and he who rejects you rejects me; and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me (Luke 10:16). 2. I cannot believe that Christians are defending those caricatures of Catholics as insane people who, if they disagree with you would riot, and cause physical harm to you. So let us continue to pray for a reform of the reform and restore back to all things in Christ including a reverent Traditional Latin Mass and true teachings that not all faiths can lead to salvation, only the One True Church, the Catholic Church Or is it all about the win? Tech State/Province:CA Very few are actually about the pictures. FWIW, after reading Jimmys posts for a while, I cant think of a single instance where Jimmy has misdirected tough theological questions. No that is not the real issue, I think Jorge is refering to Whites serious questions on Indulgences, The thesaurus meritorum, Immaculate conception, Bodily Assumption, Papal Infallibility, and on whether any church bishop taught these things when the Council of Nicea convened, around 318. White, J. R. Scripture Alone, Bethany House Publishers, Bloomington, MN, p.107. Considering all that information, it is easy to understand why alpha omega tattoos are certainly one of the best kinds of tattoos for men and women. Your ad hominem comment had no basis. Again, this is flawed because it was constructed on from the basic assumption that the Canon in totality necessarily flows from the creation of scripture, and was not previously known infallibly before. And if he truly looks down on folks who would defend an Internet Apologist, what of the fact that he is defending James White, who is also an Internet Apologist by the same virtue? Papal Infallibility? I cant help but think that the average online lay person from both communions will have to take the lead in this matter. Some other event has no relevance to this discussion. The King James Bible No, I will not. Or how silly and pathetic it is? Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. Your opinions dont matter. Theo. In the interview Beckwith never indicated that he had ever read trent, he assumed that everyone knew he did but what he said would easily give you the impression that he hadnt read it. The Sovereign Grace of God: A Biblical Study of the Doctrines of Calvinism. James White is an unstable individual. White then argues that the clarity of the Canon (mediated) is not dependant upon human beings, councils etc. Or perhaps recalling a handful of protestant killers really does serve as proof that Romes killers werent so bad? . White makes some sophisticated-looking objections about something one of his interlocutors has said or done. Same goes for the generally less intense venom seen to some degree on both sides of the debate on this thread, except that I dont pretend to forgive offences that were commited against someone else not me, I just hope they come to repentance (were probably just talking venial sin here but it is still important). I will, however, say that his actions in posting those pictures, and attacking Francis Beckwith personally (insinuating that he is a liar, for instance), are just simply wrong. God uses the foolish to confound the wise. circumstances. Prejudiced. Its doubtful that hell ever recover from it. S o, e ven though believers today are not under the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15), the fact that there was a command against tattoos should raise some questions. We protestants have a collective memory of the horrors of the uncritical acceptance of Romes claim to authority, and when the same mentality appears in the modern guise of civilized discourse, we can nonetheless accurately analogize it to jihad-think. by his stripes I am healed. (Same people His disciples were empowered. How do you know that Hebrews is actually Scripture? This applies to both sides in every situation. In that respect, StubbleSpark, I appreciate your adventurous thinking, though it seems to me that we do need some lumps to go with our cake. The Bible & the Quran: Which is the Light to the World? Both the alpha and omega are quite prominently depicted with shades of red and some green streaks. Humor does have consequences, both emotional and theological it can wound and it can heal. The list can go on but the common theme each of these men have is that they have all lost in debate with White and the recordings make it painfully obvious. I thought that this was an apologetics website, but I see little apologetics going on. But I do not know what to do about it, how to overcome it. Ooooo-kayyyy. Muhammad was Constantine and the entire Christian episcopate rolled into one person. My reason to believe this involves trusting the authority of the Church to determine authentic scripture. Point the finger directly at Jimmy Akin and Catholic Answers as finally revealed here by your comments! Its a combox flame war, which means the stakes are remarkably low. Prophetic? Offensiveness per se doesnt preclude response. As Zack was pastoring in the summer 2012, he was awakened to the abortion holocaust and has never been the same since. seeing as you deem him important enough to name your apologetics website after him? Every day someone new stands up wild-eyed and excited that they finally figured it out. The answer is nil, since CES does not offer real doctorates. Jimmy has publicly admitted errors and owned up to mistakes. Whites explanation leaves that unanswered. foxfier, Satanic counterfeit Bible versions also Name Server:NS.DEWDESIGNS.COM Does an OSASer lose salvation when he converts to Presbyterianism? Oh, and I see White has followed the template over at his blog: (1) stir up trouble with a bonehead statement; (2) act the victim when called on it; (3) change the subject by proffering some hobbyhorse topic/argument; (4) shake his head sadly while professing his allegiance to the Gospel [sic] and noting his opponents assumed allergy to the same; and (5) claim victory, after noting throughout, sotto voce, his obvious merits. Dr. White welcomes your calls at Whites supporters are either unable or unwilling to participate in a serious discussion. Paul, Why did I choose to follow the pope? Theres a little too much moral equivalency going on here. Salvation is free,but following Christ requires all of me on the tree, burried with him, working with him daily, like Paul says. By the by, http://www.jameswhite.org for the CA website url? Scholarly conduct? First tell us, what race are the Germans? I dont hear that concern from James White. You ducked my accusations until I got sick of it and then started bantering on about how wrong I was. Well settle for ANY of the evidence. And Ill forgive you and Jimmy and anyone else nonetheless. Thats the Old Covenant. It is an inherent part of both Roman and Islamic epistemology. It is not a *relationship*. Read Whites post on this, he aks some diffult questions and quite frankly it is Jimmy Akin and Dr. Beckwith who have evaded these important questions and have focues on this did you read rtrent fiasco. We also acknowledge that reason apart from faith is useless. I guess youll need to ask him yourself whether its about the win. I realized then that I could not anymore choose what the Bible says, I had to choose to be consistent with what the church has always said: I had to choose to submit to the authority of the church. In other words, forcing people to engage in sexual acts when they did not wish to. BRAIN IMPLODING. Prove his actions offensive and Ill recant. The only thing Ive heard is I wont read him/Ive never read him, but hes full of hot air. Before anyone knew the state of what God had done (canon mediated), God infallibly knew the current state and content of canon (infallible). I thought that this was an apologetics website, but I see little apologetics going on. If hes merely assuming, how is now judging? Why dont you try to explain it in plain English? Stubblespark it might even help the White apologists who seem to fear the same silence. Alpha & Omega Hoodie. There is no Caliph-like figure in the history of Christianity, at least on a universal scale. Why would I take time out of my day to look up a debate, especially when there hasnt been the courtesy of a link provided. Jerry, yet the same council says: And if youve already posted one specific theological question it wouldnt be difficult of you to cut and paste it again. I cant keep up with the comments, but this thread must hold the record for number of posts. I hope I can continue to read JA.O, and its comboxes, without having to see this kind of kindergarten-level foolishness again. God knows the true Canon (he knows what he wrote). Matthew, As it stands, your post doesnt deal with anything stated and is tied up with a nice but thats just my opinion at the end. There is no mediating figure White will listen to who will call him on it, so Id just move on. Jonathan, that last little tidbit is an argumentum ad populum and should be recanted. I had no wish to align with the whore of babylon, I didnt [then] get litugy, the singing and preaching generally sucked, they had no concept of evangelizing, and way too many inside didnt believe were amazed that I would. Sorry. Fundementalists follow the Hadith and traditions of Islam which explain put the Quran in its context It makes you look much less than you are, and whats more, it risks bringing the perception of the message of the Church down to the drivel of Calvin then and now. Donate Sacralism is a paradigm of absolute unity between church and state that could not, would not distinguish between material, institutional trappings of human magesterial authority and the spiritual realities of the heavenly kingdom. There are some actions one is obligated to take in situations like these even if you do not feel guilty of being uncharitable. It was your imagination which took off on a tangent as you erroneously presumed I was arguing something I wasnt. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions. Who would go through through the expense of buying a domain name to lead others to Catholic Answers? Taking my word that Im right is something I wouldnt want anyone to do, thats why I back up what Im saying. That is total heresy! John D. Name Server:NS5.DEWDESIGNS.NET Anymore ad hominem onel iners or are you actually going to deal with the picture issue and refute me? Most deep thinking Protestants come to this issue eventually and their continued Protest depends entirely upon Sola Scriptura. Hah! Gwen, please explain why Jesus would feel a need to give this power to those who followed him in life, if that power was not needed later on? There is NO reason for a White disciple to point anyone to Catholic Answers, let alone build up some elaborate hoax to discredit the Catholics here. I mean, Im a cessationalist, and I dont believe speaking in tounges to still go on. Greek grandeur is greatly infused within Alpha Omega tattoos. If you are in a church that uses multiple Bible versions, get out of seeing as you deem him important enough to name your apologetics website after him?. But I have read a lot more of White than I have of you, and I understand the Calvinist mind because I have one. I dont get this whole sense of entitlement. James White owes Catholics an apology for this. It smells like a prank, like someone causing trouble. So Dennis been living under a rock for the past week? In truth the Church is too unique to prove herself unique. So you decided for yourself what it says and then decided youd go along with a group that agrees with you. I dont see why he lets his emotions dictate his ministry. ANGIE'S GALLERY . Anon, CareBear, I did look at Whites website. His revelation? I wasnt offended. a faith that works You may get a chance to ask your questions at a more pertinent time on this blog and get a more reasoned and complete answer. Personally, I cant think of anything scarier than a J.A dolly. It was that, or start yet another denomination. 1) Jimmy allows random people to post in his comboxes without requiring any sort of registration. Not accurate but made more sense. Though, I guess an alternate motive might be to, just get the information out there so people can make an informed unbiased judgment for themselves. Again, my bad for not crying wolf when a dog barks Rebuking the sinner! This isnt an apologetics website, and frankly, most of us arent here to talk apologetics. I got sick of reading the comments about half way through. Same way you can think something is right and be wrong. Speaking of CHEAP DEBATE TACTICS TO AVOID THE REAL ISSUES, you seem to OVERLOOK the fact that it is JAMES WHITE resorting to CHEAP DEBATE TACTICS TO AVOID THE REAL ISSUES, but I guess THATS OKAY, huh???? They are not Christian. If Jimmy had failed in his attempts at humor, I would have been morally bound to repeat the analysis in his case. Context is important. Clark Im not interested in buying any bridges. Ok most of these comments are getting ridiculousseriously. Name Server: Gary, Whites assertions HAVE been interacted with. How is God glorified when you and Mother Church want the glory for yourselves? Especially the last two sections. NEVER!!!! Tech City:Riverside While God offers His forgiveness, He does not force it on anyone. Why did I choose to follow the pope? I dont think these sorts of debates at all useful, even if I like the thinking of the debater. Are you considering the original context, author, audience, and the genre of what you are reading (didactic, poetry, etc.)? Perhaps you should all look to your own for blanket, ad hominem attacks against Roman Catholicism proper. The offer to forgive must be there, as it is with God. Oh, you mean like accusing someone of a logical fallacy, which you never did substantiate? By the by, http://www.jameswhite.org for the CA website url? And then were gonna to Francis Beckwith! (pre-feeds begin 30 minutes or so before start of program). Huh??????? If however you have been reading this blog as long as I have you will know that neither Jimmy nor many of the regular combox contributors are ones to shy away from real meaningful debate on these meaningful subjects. James White and Jimmy Akin have met on numerous occasions in a variety of formats and frankly it is White who ends up tossing red herrings to avoid dealing with the truth. Hmmmmm, What questions has ChurchMouse asked specifically? St. Paul says: Even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a Gospel to you other than that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema (Gal. Esau there was a BIG burst of the nasty spam, and it was most of the links in the little recent post sidebar. Thatsobtuse. A name is a label. James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. Given that Guardian shows up, posts a URL out of the blue, vanishes and four hours later White has an angry post up, it does stink. When one happens upon a URL that leads direcrtly to Catholic Answers, what is one to assume? The Chris Pinto vs. James White debate on whether Codex Sinaiticus is a modern forgery can be boiled down to a few considerations. Exercise patience. I dont see how either you or White can demand that Jimmy drop whatever hes doing to give special attention to White. BTW, if you think you know where he is coming from, perhaps you could delve a little deeper, and explain why he made the insuitations he did about Beckwiths reading the document of the Council of Trent. Besides being an author, Jimmy is the Senior Apologist at Catholic Answers, a contributing editor to Catholic Answers Magazine, and a weekly guest on "Catholic Answers Live." He strikes me as just another guy who has a following, wailing about how badly hes been treated by the bad ol world. HA! Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them (John 20:23). This reveals something of Whites character, his impulsiveness, and his lack of good judgment. with his own ad hominems. Thats a joke, son. Well, thats true enough in its own way. Ill take being familiar with logical fallacy to being familiar with Latin any day of the week. What Does a Christian Need to Know About Roman Catholicism? Question: if the Bible is 100% Gods Word (as I believe as well), why do we talk about Paul, Peter, Matthew, etc. The Circuits and Teachings of the Apostles The point I was attempting to make earlier in this thread (since the website was again brought up as an issue) with my Disciples of James White Conspiracy Theory is that it is just as ridiculous as the Catholic Answers/Jimmy Akin/Catholic Church Conspiracy Theory. Christ said: If he refuse to hear even the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and the publican (Matt. 3. I asked: As I have already proventhe pictures do not compare Roman Catholics to terrorists. and a card from Magic: the Gathering, which had a really, really pretty drawing and this quote: only a fool fears foxfire. In his commentary on St. John, in Ch 16, he says this: Apologia Radio P.O. Instantly, in truth, at the end of this sentence, as if before a peaceful light streaming into my heart, all the dark shadows of doubt fled away. As Ive stated previously: But. James White does not. And likewise, if we reflect Christ, we should give him the love that Christ would, yet the correction that comes with Church discipline. The Epistle from Laodicea to the Colossians What Mr. Greydanus said. Face it, some folk get a kick out of kicking over ant hills. This is a rather convient way to win a debate without ever having to defend a word you say Sandy: You believe what it says to you, and the Protestants believe what it says to them. Perhaps its the dark heart of the matter. Dont you? I appears to me that Dr. White is simply a bit challenged by Dr. Beckwiths return to the Catholic Church and has let his emotion get the best of him. I expect this from him and other anti-Catholics. Godwins Law holds that the longer an online discussion goes, the greater the odds of someone making a comparison to Hitler. Ignore my above complaint. As somebody earlier mentioned it is the accusing party that must prove their case! By placing the beginning paragraph or two of the lead article of their monthly magazine, This Rock, on the very cover of the work, they draw your attention into reading the rest of the article. Perhaps I was too subtle. Yes! Ed, do YOU have an urge to say it depends on your interpretation? When an author writes a book, a canon of his or her writing is automatically created as a result of the simple consideration that he or she has written at least one book Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them (John 20:23). When I attempted to explain that participation in the hypostatic union was a well-known element of patristic theology, from First Nicaea to Chalcedon to Second Nicaea, he hung up on me. Pope John Paul the Great did not wait for his would-be assasin to repent before he forgave him. Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. That is a relationship of some form CareBear: 1:10). I am in the wilds of eastern Mississippi but we got a program in anyway! repentance from a change of They try to argue that this goes back all the way to Moses, however there is no proof for that, the writings of Talmud come into existence after the destruction of the Temple. You will also notice a few dotted lines connecting the letters alpha and omega. I did do a Google search and found you indeed have credibility. Afterall, the societal paradigm for the last half century often seems to be: Nazis are evil; All Germans are Nazis; Therefore all Germans are evil. Esau, the claim was Whites supporters are either unable or unwilling to participate in a serious discussion. Such a claim is based on a negative view of SOME of his supporters on this forum and ignores the existence of supporters, perhaps to include those who haved posted on JA, who have been and/or are otherwise willing to participate in serious discussion were it not for the hostilities and dismissiveness present on the JA forum. Well, lets seeby awarding him a casuistry degree, you are accusing him of specious reasoning. Ah, you are looking the wrong way. (and yes Ive helped them see the difference) I have twenty-five years of experience in the field and I know most of the state-of-the art research and researchers. CB: Or even the likes of Jack Chick. And I think his analogy to jihad is an apropos means of expressing it. Dr. White welcomes your calls at: CA should be able to block any incoming connections that contain a referral from jamesrwhite.org. and the vitriol (no one can argue the level of hatred) expressed towards A. There comes a time when the best thing is to simply not engage with the other person and only respond to correct any inaccuracies. James White asked some legitimate and tough questions. I also see things coming from people on all sides of the debate that, quite frankly, shock me. I am expressing the truth. Christ sent them forth to teach His doctrines, saying, As the Father has sent me, I also send you. (John 20:21) Rome keeps disappointing me. There have been some wonderful posts with many great insights (at least for me personally). I do remember the conversation (although excuse me for not remembering every detail) it turns out my recollection was pretty good. Alpha & Omega 115 Trucker Hat. They have 5-children: Sage, Immagin, Saylor, Stellar, and Augustine. Sandy, Short answer, because Christ Himself gave the Church authority. Considerable time and work are required to get such a tattoo, but it is completely worth the hassle! September 2021 Looking for james white alpha omega tattoo? By the by, http://www.jameswhite.org for the CA website url? Your inability and/or unwillingness to consider ideas outside of your own conjecture, Okay, so I guess I am the only one here who had that experience. I mean, whos to say that the Catholic Church might not have made a mistake in rejecting all those books that they threw out in deciding the Canon of the New Testament??? apologetics might happen, but only as a byproduct of our chatting AOMIN App Im not going to read White, however, since there are such a lot of other Protestant authors out there whom I personally judge as more scholarly. Ed: CareBear, *we dont care* what insanity you want to bring out. doesnt seem to perceive the inconsistency of their own message. Soon as White says Look, Im sorry Ill be cool with im. Clearly, some of us do misunderstand it, as there are many different understandings of Holy Scripture. Edward, If James White thinks this is humorous, he has indeed lost his mind, along with his common sense, and his simple ordinary decency. Is it the collective memory of Catholicism or individual Catholics? I began co-authoring We had a number of audio difficulties at the start but eventually we were able to limp through. He complains that his interlocutors are refusing to discuss his real points, which The question is, why would an OSAS Protestant care about the defection of one person to Catholicism? There seems to already be plenty of paper flying between the two feuders. Thank you Carebear and friends, and God bless you all. Please post prayers for him there, keeping in mind that the thread is for prayers only. On IRC he would have the cult of White; he would tell people no one can beat him in debate. I fail to see how the Bible being 100% Gods word neccessitates the rejection of the FACT that God employed human authors to convey His Word. Store The actual point is that White posted an asinine photoshop making an asinine comparison between his Catholic opponents and violence-threatening Islamofascist fanatics. evangelists whom I wont name, but will The most commonly cited example is Peter, but I would suggest another example. When attention stops being paid, the screaming escalates. Soon as White says Look, Im sorry Ill be cool with im. I forgot Jimmys blog doesnt carry formatting through paragraph breaks. Now, dont get me in trouble with your hubby, Foxy! Esau, like this. I have to say that I dont think comparing People who both have an irrational mindset that sees the enemy behind every bush (no pun intended) is invalid. You means Whites claims that Beckwith couldnt really have read the documents from Trent in his twenties? Feb 23, 2021. Do they not apply, or are you choosing to ignore them in order to post another gotcha! by claiming that were not responding? One of the rules of LAbri is honest answers for honest questions. I dont see a lot of that going on. youd have to find a more substantive angle of attack Have you heard the other side of the story? Was the Quran Reliably Transmitted from the Prophet Muhammad? Hes frustrated. by Dr. Hank Lindstrom, Here are some Purgatory, as defined by Rome today? When you gulp down the unexamined assertions of any one-true-agent-of-God-on-earth organization, you will begin to stumble down a very dark and threatening path. Theo. The more important and interesting point is whether the humor passes the common man test: would a common man, independent of theological connotations, find the joke funny? Instead of setting aside several years for the reflection that real doctoral work affords, and from which he would have profited at ASU, White chose Columbia Evangelical Seminary. Sarcasm is fine, but only within restricted groups. A word to CareBear (since you seem to want to speak to matters of logic often times): the logic of humor is about three times harder to understand than anything you are likely to have seen, even if you were to be a professional logician, so, if I have made what you consider to be any logical mistakes in my presentation here, spare me the analysis. Purely in terms of strategy, he must know that this is hurting his cause among both his co-religionists and those he presumably seeks to woo from the One True Church. No, and Im not close enough to any of you, either. The images are disgusting to ordinary human sensibilities because they imply moral equivalence where such a claim is outrageous and offensive. The reality is that Dr. White uses his blog on his homepage as a sort of venting system which completely sheds a negative light on the rest of his ministry. Gee, that was easy. of Mapname.com customer 3 If you want more, the book isnt expensive. You know, irreducible tautologies and such. Will you still EVADE the question??? If he truly thinks his ministry is fulfilling Gods commands, I would hope he would stay clear of this negative teenage banter. Roman Catholics differ on as many issues as Protestant Evangelicals do. If so, then why did they fail to communicate that point. Nowhere in any of this distraction are we dealing with the matters of God and salvation. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and *if he repents*, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven, and says, I repent, you must forgive him. Luke 17:3-4. Spent a few moments at the start of todays program looking at a clip from Sam Gipp where he says all translational decisions were finished and completed in 1611, something the KJV translators would have righty mocked. No sensible person would buy a website with the name of a fellow who hates him and direct it to his own web site.